• Marwan Barghouti
• Marwan Barghouti
Posted by
patrickm
at
2008-04-07 06:26 AM
I’ve been following events in Israel-Palestine for quite
sometime and thought I’d bring these links to everyone’s
attention; as people who haven’t checked lately may not have noticed the
acceleration that’s occurring. It’s pretty hard to miss now if one sees current Israeli MSM. Anyone who doubts that the war for
greater Israel is ending in defeat (and soon) could be very surprised.
Olmert was elected two years ago on the policy of ending the
occupation and withdrawing from the
But for Olmert to end the war he has to remain in power, and
that’s not going to be with Shas, so after dropping from 78 seats (out of 120)
to 67 in January, with the withdrawal of Yisrael Beiteinu’, he will lose another
12 seats when Shas walks, so he is talking to Meretz who have 5 seats, but they almost
certainly won’t join, so he will have to run a minority government. (and might be
able to because Meretz probably won’t help to bring him down if he is moving quickly on
ending the war) In short the numbers are
currently being reworked and Olmert will still have them (even if from a minority)
because there are other MK’s that won’t stand in the way of ending the
occupation.
The current stumbling block is actually Barak and his
supporters in Labor but they actually won’t count if Olmert calls it on - unless
they are prepared to bring Olmert down and can presumably get to the important number of 61.
I think that Barak’s own personal characteristics could be
working against him making sound political decisions at present. What I mean is that he has shown great
personal courage in the face of extreme danger and so may be the
last to call a halt, even though the jig is up with this war for greater Let's say he is carrying 11 of Labor’s 19; with all Olmert's - Kadima’s 29, that’s 40; with Gil’s 7 that's 47; and with Meretz's 5; and the 10 “Arab parties” MKs that would be 62. Unstable, but a majority, and then what would become of an utterly split Labor party, and in particular Barak’s element at the next election? So I would expect Barak’s faction to probably cave at the last moment. Whatever happens, the future government will be compelled by the U.S. etc to comply with what has been signed by Olmert once the deal is done.
Now I recall that (on the Gaza thread) Guru Jane said; Also
you guys are so committed to the idea that Barghouti will be released and
somehow this will solve everything? Accepting (which I don't) I
fear you are all falling into the trap of yearning for a "strong
man". And Arthur responded
Angus Reid Global monitor "Barghouti, Abbas very popular with Palestinian voters"
We shall soon see how this unfolds, but I will add to
earlier bets and say that Marwan Barghouti will be released in the next three
months. Meanwhile Uri Avnery still thinks like this; This week, a shocking document was published: David Rose’s article in
Vanity Fair. It describes how
The article held no surprises: (a) The Americans ordered Mahmoud Abbas to hold
parliamentary elections, in order to present Bush as bringing democracy to the
All this was known before. What is new is that the mixture of news, rumours and
intelligent guesses has now condensed into an authoritative, well substantiated
report, based on official
What is our government trying to achieve in
It tried to achieve this by imposing a total blockade on the population, hoping
that they would rise up and overthrow Hamas. This failed. The alternative
course is to re-occupy the entire Strip. That would carry a high price in lives
of soldiers, perhaps more than the Israeli public is ready to pay. Also, it
will not help, because Hamas will return the moment the Israeli troops
withdraw.
The only result of the Five-Day War is the strengthening of Hamas and the
rallying of the Palestinian people behind it — not just in the Gaza Strip, but
in the West Bank and Jerusalem, too. Their victory celebration was justified.
The launching of rockets did not stop. The range of the rockets is increasing.
But let us assume that this policy had succeeded and that Hamas had been
broken. What then? Abbas and Dahlan could return only on top of Israeli tanks,
as subcontractors of the occupation. No insurance company would cover their
lives. And if they did not come back, there would be chaos, out of which extreme
forces would emerge the like of which we cannot even imagine.
Conclusion: Hamas is there. It cannot be ignored. We have to reach a cease-fire
with it. Not a sham offer of “if they stop shooting first, then we will stop
shooting”. A cease-fire, like a tango, needs two participants. It must come out
of a detailed agreement that will include the cessation of all hostilities,
armed and otherwise, in all the territories.
The cease-fire will not hold if it is not accompanied by sped-up negotiations
for a long-term armistice (hudna) and peace. Such negotiations cannot be held
with Fatah and not Hamas, nor with Hamas and not Fatah. Therefore, what is
needed is a Palestinian government that includes both movements. Uri Avnery is an Israeli peace
activist who has advocated the setting up of a Palestinian state alongside There’s a train
coming; and those blind and deaf with hatred of the U.S.A., or of GWB will be surprised
by it, just before their analysis of what the U.S. are up to in the Middle East gets run
down. Avnery style thinking is simply going
to be rundown by events. Who knows the
exact when, what,and who, (Barghouti may be killed for example) but the war for
greater The truth is, the only
analysis that is still holding is that the U.S. Administration has set the new
policies to drain the swamp that the old policies sustained, and that’s bad news
for Zionism. So there we have it almost all the ‘Decent left’ turned out to be apologists
for Zionism. |
• and further
Posted by
patrickm
at
2008-04-08 03:02 AM
Some further thoughts on what has brought the issue of Marwan
Barghouti’s release to centre stage at this point, rather than say six months
ago when we were discussing him on the His generational change presidency when it comes will tend to deliver a ‘mood’ swing for the whole region (that has such a youthful population profile that almost by definition is impressionable). Cultural backwaters, in such an oppressive political swamp produce ‘keep your head down and look out for your family’ masses who are sullen, and quietly resentful but who can nevertheless quickly erupt onto the streets, and turn nasty at points of greater than usual pressure. In With no political analysis coming from any political trend that has stood up to events since 2001, Middle Eastern populations are now totally confused. It’s not just the western pseudo-left that is disorientated by the confusing events unfolding this century. But unlike western pseudo types Middle Eastern youth are desperately hungry for change and longing for a restoration or establishment of some form of collective pride. This is about to happen and so there is a contest over the brand of pride to be sold to the masses. The brand that gets the big breakthrough will establish brand loyalty for years to come. Islamists would have the masses view themselves as Islamic first and foremost, and pride restored on that basis; while nationalists would want national pride established; but the truth is that groupings like Hezbollah and Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood have some degree of front running momentum. This result is not in the interests of the “Great Satan”, nor in the interests of the “Little Satan”, whose leadership has or is only just discovering the truth. It is now in Israel’s interests to see the emergence of secular democracies in the region when to this point it was seen by the Zionist ruling elite to be in their interests to keep the region a swamp, and once more ‘all that is solid melts into air’. So, why have the Zionists back-flipped? The answer is because their old policies have
run to their end in complete bankruptcy, just as the failed Events this year have reversed the trend of slowly falling
support for Hamas as Palestinians recognized that in destroying the old border
arrangements on the Egyptian border Hamas began ending the prison status of Reforming Fatah cannot make rapid enough progress without ending the occupation and the occupation can’t be ended without the prisoners/hostages being released. What the Palestinians of Gaza now refer to as the 5 day war
also, despite the casualties of 120 dead compared to 2 Israelis, ended in
another defeat for Israeli policies when a Palestinian man from Odds are shortening on an agreement before GWB moves on! |
• Re: Marwan Barghouti
Posted by
Cyberman
at
2008-04-08 09:57 PM
What have the odds shortened to? I think I might be interested in having a flutter on there being no agreement. |
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• Re: Marwan Barghouti
Posted by
GuruJane
at
2008-04-09 03:26 PM
Any genuine final status agreement would have to be very close to Bill Clinton's final proposal back in 2001 - ie No Right of Return to Israel and Israeli sovereignity over the area of the Wailing Wall in Arab East Jerusalem.
I have seen no signs that the Palestinian leadership has done any groundwork to prepare its constituency for these extremely painful concessions. Therefore I can't see any agreement being reached. If it is, and includes the above provisions, it will collapse just as Camp David did.
By failing to call new elections after the Hamas coup, Abbas has lost political momentum and has entrenched the current Palestinian "2 entities" solution. |
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• Re: Marwan Barghouti
Posted by
Cyberman
at
2008-04-09 11:57 PM
Gurujane might well have added that neither have the Israeli leadership prepeared its constituency that Palestinians: Muslims and Christians, and their descendants, should be welcomed back to resume occupancy of land, homes, and farms from which they have been been excluded, these past 60 years or more. So, sadly, she is quite right to conclude that any agreement is quite unlikely at present.
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• sent to junk by Keza
Posted by
Cyberman
at
2008-04-10 12:23 AM
I've sent this posting by Cyberman to the junk forum. I did this (a) because it failed to address the substantive issues raised in this thread and (b) because it consisted of a series of assertions with no supporting argument.
Anyone interested can read it here keza |
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